Discussion - What do you consider to be an attachment?

[Samsara]

I have been studying buddhists theories and teachings for some time now and have been thinking about how they can be interpreted differently by different people, hence this discussion.

Buddha teaches us that if we are to have a peaceful mind and start on the path to true enlightenmet, one of the things that we must do is to aboundon our attachments. He teaches us that attachments are delusions that disturb our minds and can make us unhappy, thus making it impossible for our minds to be peaceful and happy, we can not become truely enlighted beings if this happens.

I consider attachments to be compulsions or obsessions, such as money, materials possessions and indulgances such as lust, drinking, smoking etc. I do not consider love of another person to be an attachment, as I feel that love is at the centre of all Buddha's teachings. Love and or compassion is an essential part of helping others and creating peace in this world. It is also essential for life on earth to continue, without love there would be no marriage or children and the earth would eventually die.

I also understand attachment to this life alone is something that should be considered, we are bound by karma to experience one life after another until we achieve enlightenment, therefore should not become attached to this life alone.

I was just interested to find out what you would consider to be an attachment?

Hope that you can find the time to give me your views.

Love, Light and Godbless

Samsara. xx

[Lama Shenphen Rinpoche]

It would depends how you define "love". If that love is attraction in any way toward an other being or as a matter of fact toward any phenomena, then it falls directly into attachment. The motivation of the Buddhas is not love, but "Bodhicitta", the Awakening Mind otherwise often translated by Compassion - though it is not correct, because Compassion is already loaded with a judeo-christian meaning, far from Bodhicitta.
Awakening Mind integrates Equanimity and unconditional wish to reach Enlightenment for the sake of all beings. The later therefore requires to reach a complete pacification of the mind (Shine, in Tibetan) and correct understanding of the True Nature of our reality. This shall bring us to the Realization of Emptiness ie. the non-inherent existence of all phenomena - not their non existence at all, by the way; but their existence being merely based on the karma created by those who perceive them.

If the mind is disturbed in any way and "moves" toward a phenomena it understands as "external", expressing an interest into keeping in contact, or rejecting that contact, it is then an attachment.

All the best, Lama Shenphen RInpoche

[Ryan Vong]

Hi Samsara,

I share your same views on the definition of attachment. However, there appears to be a very fine line between what Lama Shenphen Rinpoche defines as "external" attachments verses the idea of emptiness or non-attachment. Can you really love someone without it being an attachment since that person or those feelings are externally projected?

I have often tried to imagine what the experience of non-attachment would be like. In this case non-attachment is the "realization of emptiness". It was explained to me that "emptiness" wasn't a void as one would imagine, but in the "emptiness" is where understanding lies. I believe the term "understanding" was used similar to awakened mind or "Bodhicitta" as Lama Shenphen Rinpoche defined.

[Lizzie]

I thought I was quite well along the path of non-attachment until I had my children. Now it takes my breath away to contemplate losing them. I don't feel 'attachment' to them in the way that one might 'love' a new car but it is attachment in that it would cause me indescribable pain to lose them. If the way to end suffering is to avoid attachment then I am fully attached because I would suffer greatly. From a Buddhist perspective, I struggle with this as I wouldn't want to be unattached.

Lizzie

[Lizzie]

Thanks Arana. I have read excerpts but not the whole thing - but I will now. I suspect this is a very biological thing - nature needs it to be this way - especially when they are little (mine are 2 and 4). Something has to make you still love them after they have just thrown up all over you, your bed and the cat for the third time in one night! This has happened more than once and I still love them infinitely. Not sure about the cat - she is definitely Buddhist. :-)

[Barbara O'Brien]

It's important to understand "attachment" in the context of anatta. "Attachment" only happens when there are two things -- an attach-er and an object of attachment. But the Buddha taught there is no attacher.

In other words, "you" are the primary delusion, not the thing you desire.

So, in this sense, whenever you perceive something to be separate from yourself, you're attached to it. A synonym for "no attachment" is "no separation." Don't spin your wheels over whether loving your children or others is "attachment."

[Li Rui]

I recently read a description of attachment as a person eating in a concentration camp, one hand brings food and needed nourishment , while the other protects it from their neighbor, waiting to take it from them the moment they lower their guard.
I worked in juvenile corrections, and I have seen many eat with one hand while the other arm is wrapped around the plate.

The thing we wanted does not cause happiness once attained but the opposite, only a brief flash of pleasure, followed by the anxiety of the fear of losing it.

Happiness is not the brief excitement of attachment, followed by the crash on the other side of attachment. what makes you happy or unhappy is not the people or the world around you, but the thinking in your head. Happiness is not easily defined kinda like describing light to some one who has always lived in the dark. You can't describe it but you can begin to understand it. Once you understand the nature of your unhappiness then it will begin to disappear..
Like realizing you are dreaming in a nightmare , the nightmare fades understand your attachments and they will vanish. The consequence is freedom. Happiness and freedom cant' be easily defined but their opposites can be observed and cause these things to vanish leaving the result. This is my Limited understanding and I am continuing to grow and develop while I work on facing my own attachments and killing them.

[Susmita Barua]

Attachment to particular views or beliefs may present obstacles in the path. That is why Eight fold nobel path begins and ends with right or wholesome views. One can become overly attached to Buddha (as teacher), his context specific teachings or the particular yanas or practices (outward forms and rituals), one's sangha or organization and forget one is supposed to do the inner work of removing defilements, practice metta and take every step mindfully to experience the fruits of dhamma by one's own effort. Attachment to any polarity "permanence" or "impermanence", "self" or 'non-self", "relative samsara" or 'absolute emptiness" , 'ego or 'egolessness', 'good' and 'evil' could also become a barrier in walking the 'Middle Way" since reality is whole and inclusive.

Buddha taught about seeing things as they are...realizing such is the nature of existence...neither good, nor bad ..ultimately having.no view...going beyond view and experience 'tathata' - suchness of life...total acceptance...unconditional love of life. Deep down we are that boudless love...inseparable from other beings and one with infinite existence.. Life itself. So awakening to our unconditioned being our deepest nature ends all suffering and brings complete contentment and peace.

mita

[Samsara]

I have been reading through your replies to my dicussion, Thankyou all for taking the time to read and express your views, all very interesting and valid points.

Love and Light

Samsara xx

[Shane]

To me an attachment is both physical and mental. It's anything that slows you down or prevents you from being free / light / fast acting / mindful, etc. The negative garbage and the positive garbage of the past are attachments.
Doubt (or the idea that you don't have the ability to do or learn something) is an attachment in this sense but is labelled a hinderance.

My life has a lot of clutter in it, so I've started sorting out my stuff and what needs to be kept, what needs to be thrown away, and what needs to go on eBay!! :D.

The *idea* of money is a big one. Ie, it doesn't actually exist really when you think about it. It's a number, humans invented numbers, so it's not real. But I see people with huge bank accounts because they are so attached to it and are unhappy.
They are so attached to it that they won't invest it in the things that will make them even more money!!!

They are so attached that they deny themselves wonderful opportunities because they won't spend the money to do so.
If they let go of the idea of money, they'd have more of it and a better, fun filled life.

[David VanHorn]

An interesting question. As I have come to understand attachment, it is a clinging to most anything in this life, whether it be an object, a person, anything. We cling because we are afraid we might lose it, whatever it is, and thereby lose our happiness, completeness, self. I believe love of another person could be an attachment, depending on our approach to that love, our perspective regarding that love. If there is a need to love another for us to experience happiness, then attachment may be there. If there is an obsessiveness or a compulsion to that love, then attachment is there.

Thank you for helping me to reflect on this some more.

[Horus]

Attachments are called Kilesas are cravings, attachments and desires. Aversions also come under the classification of craving/desire - this is due to the fact that when we think "oh no i dont ever want to see that person again - i dont like him/her" (for example), then we are still craving - craving to "not see' "not encounter" things we are averse to.
In Thai, the great Master Monk of Tudong Forest tradition Luang Phu Chah, used to say "Yaa yerd man!" - Yerd Man means, to cling to a theory or maintain something for being of prime importance or necessary. To staunchly believe in somehting in a fixed inflexible way is to "Yerd man" - the act of staunchly clinging to something is a form of attachment. Attachment means all forms of clinging, be it clinging to a belief, a material object, a person, the love of a person, a particular mood or physical/mental sensation, or state of being. Attachment, or "Kilesa" is the root of all suffering (desire is the root of attachment - desire for a certain thing,matter etc) Exectation is included as an aspect of attachment, and disappointment is the form of suffering that comes from expectation, due to the fact that the world and both inner and outer phenomena do not obey our expectations, wishes or desires for things we are attached to or cling to to "be like this" or "be like that" or; "please dont let it be this way, or that way" Both wanting and not wanting something to be a certain way is called attachment and clinging, which is rooted in desire..
All things are impermanent (Anicca) and therefor clinging to such impermanent things, which cannot remain in the state we wish then to leads to dissatisfaction. Impermanent things are unsatisfactory (Dukkha)

when all forms of grasping and clinging sping is anihillated in the heart-mind, does the supremely pure and natural state of "prapasana" mind emerge - prapasana means "luminous" the Buddha stated that the true nature of the mind is luminosity. Nirvana is "peace" "stillness" which is entered into upon attaining enlightenment. Enlightenment is Arahantship, free from all further suffering. The cycle of rebirth (becoming) is also escaped from through the removal of all craving.
This is one factor in a chain of events known as Paticasamuphata (the wheel of becoming) which causes us to forever circle round in a repetition of events l;eading to further rebirths, aging, sickness, loss of things and people, health etc.. and eventually death - all joyous things we crave are eventually leadiing to suffering and unsatisfactory in nature. Take the pleasure of smoking a cigarette and the relief that comes from smoking one for example. First the craving appears and thw feeling to smoke one.. this is Dukkha (suffering) - once you light one up and smoke it then sensation is aroused (in the case of pleasurable matters such as the cigarette, then the sensation is pleasure). The plesure leads to satisfaction, the satisfaction abates the craving. Once you finish and some time passes, you think of the satisfaction you had and begin to crave it again, and the whole process starts it's cycle renewed. For this reason the pleasure attained (even though possibly seen as a positive and enjoyable experience), is unsatisfactory due to the fact that the pleasure is impermanent and impossible to maintain as a constant. All things are in perpetual change and cannot be held, posessed or enjoyed in the same condition forever. These forms of refuge are temporary and unsatisfactory. Enlightenment and liberation from the cycle of running round from satisfaction to craving to suffering then satisfaction-craving and so forth, is the perfect and final solution to end all unsatisfactory conditions of being.
Also, there are many different levels of subtlety to the phenomena called attachment and desire (Kilesa). The wanting to hurt others who one see as an enemy is a base, coarse negative form of desire (attachment to the need for revenge, for example) - whereas the wish to be a Bodhisattwa, help others ot be happy, or even to become enlightened, is a very fine subtle and positive form of desire and attachment, however it is still a form of clinging. Such positive subtle attachments are not to be disposed of whilst one still is suffering from the more crude and negative forms of attachment and desire, one can even use these positive clingings to eliminate the negative ones. The Buddha excplained that it is "Attaanudhiti" (the perception of oneself as an individual entity, which is an illusion in Buddhism, where all things are anatta [non-self] not Atta [immutable transmigrating self/soul], which is the cause of our false views and subsequent desires to mold things into our way of how we are wanting them to be. Atta and the clinging to seeing oneself as an immutable self is to be eliminated in Buddhism to attain the realisation of Anatta (non self). However, the Buddha did admit and even recommend the use of the ego (atta) perspective as a tool, until one no longer needs it and can become anatta and enlightened. What he meant was this;
If you use the "personal desire" to become a good person and become enlightened, as a tool to eliminate the desire to harm others and to be an egomaniac, then this form of thinking in the egoistic mindset of Atta is useful. After all, whilst one is still unenlightened it is obvious that one still operates within this framework of a supposed self. Once one has eliminated the coarse unsubtle forms of Atta and the subsequent unwholesom and "self-ish" desires that arise from such (attachments etc), only then need one really work on dissolving the wholesome desires which are indeed beneficial and wholesom (Kusala) not harmful and unwholesome (Akusala). In the end, to become enlightened one must do as Luang Phu Cha taught and "Yaa Yerd Man" (do not hold on to fixed views beliefs and desires/wishes/expectations) and "Ploy Wang" (let go of/put down) all these things - including the desire to be enlightened, including the belief that there is a permanent self (Atta), or even the belief that all things are non self (Anatta). Maintaing beliefs is clinging, and whilst we cling we do not see the world for what it is. Thes are all veils masking the world with illusions created by our own desires.

The best solution is to relieve oneself of clinging to impermanent phenomena and thus not be prone to suffering due to attachment to such matters.
It is easy to see that the sound of the birds in the trees is not oneself, also that the wind in one's hair is not oneself.. it is more difficult for many to see that the angry emotion or the feeling of joy which blows up in our minds for a short moment and then fades, giving way to the next thought or feeling is also not oneself, rather just like a wind which blows through us.
Our tendency to identify with the variuos phenomena that arise within our five khandas (sphere of existential perception) makes us think "this is my pain, my leg hurts, my bad mood, my good mood" etc - whereas if we learned to see them for what they really are, ephemeral phenomena just arising and disappearing giving way to the next wave, then we might not suffer at the thought of their disappearance (or appearance in the case of negative phenomena) so much as we do.
If an arahant was asked if his leg hurts him, he would answer "there is pain in the leg" which would not mean that he suffers, as that pain is just a much not self for the arahant as is the saw that is cutting through the wooden plank in the sawmill next door. It is just another phenomena. the only difference being that the sensation in the leg is contained within the 5 khandas and the sensation of the plank being sawed next door is outside of the khandas.
Meditation on the khandas and realisation of anatta is the way to release ones association with the illusory assumptions made under the influence of the 5 khandas

More on my Vipassana based Dhamma blog

[Horus]

replying to ryan vongs comment (good point by the way!) - Bodhicitta is somehting like what we in teravada Buddhism call Brahmavihara. metta Karuna, Mudidha and Upekha.. Mudidha means wishing to help others (concern for others' wellbeing) but if you do not have Upekha (equanimity/disassociation) then when you encounter beings how you wish to help but cannot for some reason, then you will suffer because of this. If you wish to practise loving friendliness, compassion and concern for others (metta karuna and mudidha) then it is essential to develop equanimity as a protective shield (like the parasol of nirvana represented by the umbrella over the stupa/chedi), as a shade from the pain of not being able to help.
Upekha can only be attained by reaching 4th Jhana and attaining understanding and realisation of Sunyatta (emptiness) and Anatta (non self)

Jhana means absorbtion there are four levels which are sometimes classed into 8. fourth jhana leaves the sense of self and otherness behind as well as analytical thought.